Women in Construction Week 2023

Record date: 2/14/23
Air date: 3/8/23

March 5th marks the start of the 25th annual Women in Construction week, a weeklong celebration of women in the construction industry. There's a lot to celebrate this year as the share of women in construction has hit a record high. Our guests discuss what's changed in construction, what their career path looked like, and what the future looks like in this exciting industry.

GUESTS:

Brenna Mann
Head of Strategy, U.S. Construction and Infrastructure, National Account Executive Leader
Aon

As a national leader with Aon's Construction and Infrastructure team, Brenna Mann leverages deep experience in business and operations excellence, strategy development, risk management, in-house legal executive leadership and business governance. Mann’s role as Head of Strategy and National Account Executive Leader is to improve client experience and team outcomes. Mann is focused on delivering relevant solutions and best-in-class processes to help clients and stakeholders make better decisions.

Nocona Schulz
Senior Vice President, Corporate Insurance
Clayco, Inc.

Nocona Schulz has been the Senior Vice President, Corporate Insurance with Clayco since 2001, overseeing all aspects of corporate insurance policies from inception, which includes broker and carrier selection, communication and annual renewals. She also manages the CCIP, Subcontractor Default Insurance Program and Master Builders’ Risk Program to ensure that contracts and insurance policies are within compliance. She analyzes trends and statistics of injuries to identify areas for improvement in insurance programs, processes insurance certificate requests, and manages all workers’ compensation, general liability, professional liability, professional liability and SDI claims.

HOST:

David Hilgen
Future of Risk co-host
Editorial Content Manager

David is Editorial Content Manager for Zurich North America, working primarily with the company’s brand journalism site, Future of Risk. In addition to co-hosting the Future of Risk podcast, he works on external communications in support of Zurich’s sustainability efforts, manages media interactions with Zurich spokespeople and writes articles and thought leadership pieces.

Episode transcript:

(PLEASE NOTE: This is an edited podcast transcript, capturing speakers with natural speech patterns that may include incomplete sentences and/or asides, grammatical errors, verbal shorthand and some statements that may be less clear in print.)

DAVID HILGEN: March 5th marks the start of the 25th annual Women in Construction Week; a week-long celebration of women in the construction industry. There's a lot to celebrate this year as the share of women in construction has hit a record high according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. In a November 2022 article, the Washington Post reported that women surged into the industry starting around 2016, even as the number of men in construction lagged. Currently, 14% of construction workers in the U.S. are women, according to the bureau.

Welcome to Future of Risk, presented by Zurich North America. I'm David Hilgen. Our guests today are two women with years of experience in the construction industry. Brenna Mann is Head of Strategy, U.S. Construction and Infrastructure for Aon, the global financial services firm that sells a range of risk mitigation products and services, working closely with leading insurance providers, including Zurich. Nocona Schultz is Senior Vice President, Corporate Insurance for Clayco, a full-service turnkey real estate, architecture, engineering, design-build, construction firm. Incidentally, Clayco helped design and build the Zurich North America Headquarters in Schaumburg, Illinois. Hi, Brenna and Nocona, welcome to the podcast.

BRENNA MANN: Hi there.

NOCONA SCHULTZ: Hi, David. Thank you.

HILGEN: So, I want to start off by learning a little bit about how each of you found careers in the construction field. Brenna, what was your career journey like?

MANN: Thanks for having me today, David. I like the way you phrased it, “How it found us,” because I think it found me; I didn't find it, necessarily. I guess the story would be that after I graduated from law school, the law firm that I was lucky enough to join — a partner there represented a lot of construction clients, and that's how I started this journey. I started working on matters related to those clients.

I was recruited away from private practice and went in-house to a construction company, pretty early in my law career at that point. The company was Edward Kraemer and Sons, civil contractor, at that time…third generation owned. So, I was promoted over some years to the General Counsel position and led Risk Management and Human Resources. After I left Kraemer, I went to a commercial contractor starting the legal and risk function there, but after a few years, was promoted to lead the Construction Process and Technology Group and Function, Human Resources, Communications, and sat on their Executive Management Team.

And that whole journey got me to Aon. I joined Aon in September as Head of Strategy and what does that involve? We're trying to figure it out, but I think what it means is looking at how Aon's practice group internally operates, but then also how we become and stay relevant to our construction clients like Nocona and Clayco.

HILGEN: Well, that makes sense. Nocona, you've been with Clayco for more than 20 years. What was your first introduction to the industry?

SCHULTZ: I first began my career right out of college in the accounting department of an electrical contractor. As time went on as I was working there, I was asked to begin to review the insurance requirement and contracts, produce insurance certificates — which is, incidentally, when I found out what an insurance certificate actually is — and handle worker's compensation claims. So, [that was my] first foray into construction in general.

In January 2001, I took an opportunity here at Clayco as the CCIP Director, that's the Clayco Coordinated Insurance Program, coordinating insurance for our subcontractors on many of our projects. Since then, I have been promoted and now I’m Senior Vice President of Corporate Insurance. I handle all of the corporate insurance needs for all of our companies and entities.

HILGEN: Wow. You've both, if you’ll pardon the term, built quite extensive careers in the construction industry. Nocona, what have been some of the challenges of being a woman in an industry dominated by men?

SCHULTZ: It's a challenge to be heard. I've often been the only woman in an all-male meeting call, etc. and it's taken years of putting in work to make sure my voiced opinions and suggestions are heard and understood. I've learned that I have to be confident that I know the information, that I can convey that information in a way that's understood by everyone so that they can build the trust and confidence in me that I can do my job and what I'm saying they can rely on.

HILGEN: Brenna, what do you see are some of the challenges of being a woman in an industry dominated by men?

MANN: The fact that we're celebrating the fact that there are 14% [women] of construction workers today, right? That still presents a challenge because it still means you are the minority in the room or on the job site. And that's a lot of challenge, right? I think that's a daily challenge, in terms of “Yes, you're there, but the next step is true inclusion.” It is making sure that, as Nocona said, if the challenge is to be heard, making sure that you are given the opportunity to be heard. I think that's where you see maybe some of the experience that can be difficult or a challenge in being a woman in an industry that is very male-dominated.

HILGEN: That makes sense. How important is it for women to work with a mentor in the construction industry?

MANN: I think very important. I think what Nocona just shared and provided was so well said, and it kind of forays into when I look at the mentors I've had early on in my career. I mean formal mentorship programs, especially those focused on promoting and challenging women, did not exist, right? So, a lot of that was informal and a vast majority of the folks I consider mentors were, of course, and are men. Because it's math, right? I mean, in terms of those folks that would be possible candidates to be mentors to women in this industry, there's just not a lot. But the importance of them is taking an active interest in your career and providing you those opportunities to be heard, right? Those introductions, that background, that guidance and then also just giving you feedback that I think is so critical to developing professionally … to challenging you … to pushing you. I think that's the value of the mentors I've had in my career.

HILGEN: Have you had any opportunities, then, to be a mentor to others?

MANN: I have, and I think … I wish, to a degree, I had spent more time on that. It's something that when I reflect on my own career, I think I put my nose down a little too much and didn't kind of look out and say, “Okay, where else can I do this?” And as time marches on, it's become more and more important to me to share those experiences and to make sure that I am providing that mentorship, because it is so valuable to others; men and women.

HILGEN: Nocona, what has helped you along the way?

SCHULTZ: I would say, when I first began in my career, our insurance broker at that time had a program that they allowed me to sit in on that was for their new hires, and I learned information through there. But there were people at that broker that also helped me, [they] knew I was brand new to insurance, had no idea what I was doing or talking about and [they] really helped explain things to me and worked things through with me [including] claims and coverages and things like that. Then, as far as just day-to-day work, taking on new opportunities, taking on new challenges.

When I started, I was only working with our CCIP, the Clayco Coordinated Insurance Program. Then I started doing Builders’ Risk, and then I started doing claims again, etc. and so forth. The next thing you know, it's 22 years later, and here I am.

HILGEN: Thanks, Nocona. Brenna, how about you? What has been able to help you in your career?

MANN: I do think it's, as Nocona said, not being afraid to take on new challenges. When I think back over my career and where opportunities have come from, it really is unique to construction because the companies that I worked for did not have large in-house staffs. They did not have large corporate operations at the time I joined them.

So, it was taking on a lot of new challenges as those companies grew. So, as they grew, I grew, right? And, as Nocona described her journey too, [it] is taking on more and more and more, and recognizing where you can be helpful and where you can make a difference in terms of what the company's new challenges are. So, when I think about where I have been fortunate and where things have come my way, it is really translating those opportunities into part of my job description.

HILGEN: Excellent. Following up on that, what do you wish you'd known when you were starting out? In other words, what sort of advice might you give to women today considering a career in construction, Brenna?

MANN: I would stress that often repeated adage of “network, network, network,” which is probably again to be visible, right? I think that women are told [this] over and over again. I've certainly sat through enough professional development conversations and seminars to hear, “You should network, you should make it a priority.” You know, over the course of time, I see the truth to that more and more. I think there's a lot of reasons. Women, between the challenges or the workload and then just whatever you have on going on in your personal life … you don't make time for it. It's critical to make time for that because that's professional connection, that's connectivity to industry developments and professional opportunities.

I think the other thing I would say is “Be vocal.” To not assume that people are going to seek you out. Really to push yourself to make that comment, to send that email, to be visible and vocal in a way that might feel uncomfortable, but it will, I think, return tenfold to you.

HILGEN: That makes sense. Nocona, do you have anything to add to that?

SCHULTZ: I'm kind of going off what Brenna just suggested, [and that] is women tend to be in more of a behind-the-scenes role, and it's easy just to sit at your desk and not be involved and not really understand. So, in the construction industry, I would suggest going on a job site tour. Listen, learn, ask questions. We have project managers here that love to talk about themselves and will tell you all sorts of things that you never knew, or never even knew to ask. And it's much easier — at least it is for me — to do my job if I understand some basics of the process and some nuances of it as well. There are people there that are willing to talk and share information.

Sometimes, like Brenna said, you just have to ask; you might have to seek that out. They're not going to come and say, “Do you understand?” whatever that is. But if you ask, I'm sure you can find someone to help you through that.

HILGEN: Yeah. That makes sense in any career, not just construction. That's good advice. So, you've both witnessed transformational change in the construction industry. What are some of the key ways the industry has changed? Nocona, do you have anything?

SCHULTZ: Yes, technology has improved greatly since I began in the industry: BIM, VDC and everything in between. It's amazing to see what our systems can do and the information that can be provided from them that we used to all do by hand or wasn't available. Drones weren't a thing when my career began. Clayco was the first construction company in America to be approved by the FAA to fly drones in 2014. Now, they're commonplace. People have them; they got them for Christmas presents. They are out on our job sites flying them all the time, from marketing to survey to all sorts of things. And every day, it's something new.

And then, on the not-so-great side, the U.S. has become more litigious. So, you see more and more lawsuits and people getting an attorney for reasons that they probably wouldn't have in the past. So that's one of the downsides, unfortunately, of changes in the industry as a whole.

HILGEN: Yeah, that's true. Brenna, do you have anything to add?

MANN: Right. I would just say this topic that we're discussing today is transformational, frankly. Because I think when Nocona and I were starting out, the diversity conversation was not happening to the level it was happening then. And hopefully, what we continue to talk about in a real way is how we talk about diversity and inclusion, right?

I think, too, the roles and opportunities for women [have changed] because the industry has changed the number of in-house councils, risk professionals, folks in Finance and Accounting, and technology leaders. These are opportunities that exist for women to participate in the industry in different ways.

Of course, we see women in the field in operational positions, and there are ascensions, but not to the level that they have ascended, I think, in the [overall] numbers. I mean, this is my impression. We call it “non-operational leadership roles.” So, I think that'll just continue to evolve, but that's definitely been, I think, transformational in terms of the conversations that contractors are having about why diversity is important.

HILGEN: That's good. I want to switch gears and look ahead now. Where are we in say, 25 years, when we're celebrating the 50th annual Women in Construction week? How will the workforce evolve in that time? And Brenna, you sort of touched on some of it, but do you have anything?

MANN: Right. I think that this just continues. To get to where we are today, it took 10 years, right? But the pace of change is just increasing, and that's just not in construction. That's in many industries, frankly, in the world we live in and I think that will mean that we're just going to see more and more women in different roles and in leadership. That's going to change the way the industry operates. It's going to impact, obviously, what it values. And we could say that about insurance. We could say that about networking. We could say that about construction.

I also think that technology adoption and the focus on process and project delivery, the types of roles — just like my previous statement about where you see more and more women in construction the roles that are available will just continue to be different. I mean, now you have contractors talking about data analytics, right? Now, we have pre-qualification experts and SDI experts, you know? Like, all of these little subsets that, as a role, didn't exist 5-10 years ago. So, 25 years from now, I think you will see obviously more women and in roles we probably never imagined for them.

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

HILGEN: Right. Excellent. Nocona, do you have anything to add?

SCHULTZ: Yeah, I think we'll see more women enter the construction workforce. [It] could be because schools and companies are actively recruiting women into fields that have historically been male-dominated. Both of my kids are in school and I see that on the tech school side and in the college side. My son's in an engineering school and recruiting females into a very historically male-dominated field.

Companies want to see that. People understand that women have different perspectives on different scenarios, and then you put teams together with different perspectives … what do you get? You get people thinking outside the box and being more creative with solutions. I also think that the younger generation isn't as caught up in what is seen as typical traditional male and female roles. And that will absolutely aid in women's progress in the industry.

HILGEN: So finally, what's the best thing about the construction industry right now, Nocona?

SCHULTZ: It is an exciting time and it's been exciting for years and it continues to be exciting. The diversity in the projects, for me, is one of the most exciting things. The challenges of the industry and the people in the industry right now. We have a lot of challenges all over the place — supply issues, labor challenges — those all add to make things a little more interesting. But the projects themselves and the projects that we're doing and working on all across the nation are what really motivates me every day. What else could we be doing? It's exciting. It's something to be proud of, for sure. And it keeps us going every day and makes every day interesting.

HILGEN: Excellent. Brenna, what about you? What's the best thing about the construction industry right now?

MANN: Right now, I think it is exactly as Nocona describes, which is that there is so much change in transformation that has happened. I mean, construction's been one of those industries that's typically been described as a laggard when it comes to spending on technology, and even the diversity conversation. But frankly, construction has in the last five years … not just the big construction companies, but it's the middle market and smaller construction companies that are looking at things around technology, project delivery, hiring in their labor force because they've had to look at things in a different way.

And that does mean that right now, we are kind of sitting in this apex of a lot of different moving parts going on in construction. I think, for those of us who've been around it for a long time, it is exciting because it does feel like that is having the whole industry look forward and say, “Okay, we're going to talk about planning; not just for the next project, but for the year and three years from now and five years from now. What do we want that to look like?” So, to my mind, I think there's been a shift in the mentality around how companies approach their business. And for me, you know, in the course of my career, that does feel different and pretty exciting,

SCHULTZ: Right? It's all new. It's all new all over again.

MANN: True.

HILGEN: Looks like we have a lot to look forward to. Brenna and Nocona, I want to thank you both for joining us today on this Future of Risk podcast.

SCHULTZ: Thank you so much, David.

MANN: Yes, thank you. And thank you, Zurich, for focusing on the topic.

HILGEN: And then, thanks also to our listeners. For Zurich North America, I am David Hilgen.